Lee Marsh

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Posts by Lee Marsh

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  168

  Moral responsibility.

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.

  please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.

  a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!

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  Lee Marsh

  Meanwhile people suffer

  For what?
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  168

  Moral responsibility.

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.

  please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.

  a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!

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  Lee Marsh

  Ok so let's say I am God and my creation makes what I consider a grievous error. Not only do I punish them but every single person that came form them for thousands of years, so billions of people. Just to show them a lesson!

  Up they won't learn much because they died. All their offspring suffer endlessly because of what their ancestors did.

  You call this just? Fair? Loving?

  If I can do the right thing to save someone, why can't God do the same thing? When I see a problem I can take action to help others, lessen their pain, saved some from death even. Why doesn't God do that? he sits around and waits and lets people suffer.

  I have a neighbor who prays constantly. I can't see how that helps.

  As a child I prayed constantly for help that I never got.

  As a young wife and mother I prayed constantly for help that I never got. If I had stayed in that situation, I would most likely be dead now.

  It seems ridiculous to me to say well, God helped you be strong. That isn't what I needed. I needed the beatings to stop as a child. I needed the emotional and spiritual abuse to stop as an adult. That isn't what I got.

  I was strong but I doubt that had anything to do with God. I was strong because I had no choice. Not only was I trying to protect myself but also 3 little boys and a baby girl. No one else was protecting them from their own parents.

  You might say God gave me strength to leave the Witnesses. Nope. That was pure fear that got me out. I didn't want to be dead.

  To me, the instinct to survive is what saved me. The instinct to protect those who are smaller and weaker pushed me to help my brothers and sister. God gave me the instinct? Every living thing has it.

  For me, God has seriously failed his "creation". I would not do that to one child, never mind generations of them. Billions of them!
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  168

  Moral responsibility.

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  no subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.

  please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.

  a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!

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• 

  Lee Marsh

  If I see it and do nothing I AM morally responsible.

  I have heard things many times and although I might not be able to intervene myself I have called the police and let them know the situation was urgent. The police always came within a few minutes and one case put a man under arrest immediately.

  In all cases there was the threat of violence. I am not trained for that so called the people who were trained to deal with someone who was potentially violent.

  Although I have interceded once before the police arrived to get an innocent bystander out of a situation that could have resulted in him being attacked. What amazed me was that the staff who deal with those people on a regular basis and knew both men, had no idea how to rescue the innocent man without endangering a dozen other people. But it ended well once the police finally arrived.

  Our moral responsibility has nothing to do with any god. it has to do with my personal decision to help others when I can. That doesn't even have anything to do with how I might feel if I did nothing and a person got injured.

  It is a matter of doing what is right and moral and ethical in the immediate moment without thinking or considering the cost
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  49

  a pet peeve of mine

  by enoughisenough in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  putting this under "friends" because i couldn't figure out where to put it.

  it is very often on here and in ex jw videos, ect that people like to undermine some of those who once we would have called friends.

  there seems to be a view that window washers, plumbers, cleaners, construction workers are somehow less intelligent than those who may be college educated.

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  Lee Marsh

  I have the degree. I had a lot of very well educated teachers/professors. Some knew only their subject and little of anything else. Some knew their subject but they had no idea how to pass the information on to the students. I spent a whole year in one prof's class. No one understood her. They would pass me notes or tap me to explain. I would have to be as tactful as possible to ask the question that would get her (or me) to explain what she was talking about. "So, if I understand you correctly, then when "a and b" happens then we can expect this kind of response? Then I would see heads nod in the call that they now understood. It was tedious. The prof caught on to what I was doing and started to ignore me in class so people would come to me after class.

  No doubt that the prof had gotten an education and passed enough classes to graduate but.... NOT a teacher.

  On the other hand I have met some brilliant people with little to no education that are smarter than some of those professors.

  My father had a grade 2 education. But he worked at the same company his whole life building combines. He could take a car apart and rebuild it. Fix almost anything. He was a wicked sick man but I have to give it to him, he could put almost anything together and make it work.

  Being uneducated is NOT the same as being stupid. Being educated is not the same as being intelligent.

  But uneducated people should not be handing out medical or mental health advice or punishing people who are ill. That is ALL JW elders are trained to do. - punish perceived "sin".

  Sadly, too often that results in worsening condition for the person and sometimes suicide - too often.

  Yup I am a trained mental health practitioner.
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  196

  would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

  were you more happy pimi?

  are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

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  Lee Marsh

  I have had enough of the god vs whatever debate. That was not the topic here. You have destroyed an interesting topic and made it your own.

  And after 19 pages have either one of you gotten the other person to accept even a fraction of what you have said?

  What exactly was the point? because as far as I can see all you have done is alienate everyone that really wanted to discuss the actual topic.
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  196

  would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

  were you more happy pimi?

  are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

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  Lee Marsh

  Wishing this had stayed on topic
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  196

  would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

  were you more happy pimi?

  are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

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  Lee Marsh

  I was so miserable when I was in. Suicide was the only way out,,, I thought.

  Being DFed was the better choice. Not easy at the time by any means. But I am far happier now. Haven't obsessed about suicide since I left.

  Information is power. It gives you belief that you can make other choices. Anything is better than sitting in a life that you desperately want out of even if that means dying. I was the walking dead. The more information I had the better choices I made. And I did my fair share of mistakes. But I learned.

  38 years out and still wanting more. I am alive and loving it.
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  65

  The currently missing 'Titan' submarine. What do you think?

  by SydBarrett in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any opinions are just speculation, but my guess, being morbid, is that there was not a hull breach and implosion (although that would have been the most merciful fate for them), but instead the amateur level of building this thing meant that it lost power and communication and got itself tangled in the titanic's wreckage or is sitting on the actual seabed with no way to release ballast to resurface.

  terrifying.

  what's your gut feeling?

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  Lee Marsh

  Unless of course, they commandeered the sub and sailed off with it to places unknown.

  Eventually they would have to surface somewhere with a team of people to open the hatch for them.

  But since they haven't surfaced somewhere that would be noticed I supposed they are on the bottom wishing they had gone somewhere else for a thrill.

  Sadly, time is quickly running out. Even if they find them the time to rig some manner of lifting them safely makes a rescue impossible. This is recovery,,, if they find it at all.

  No GPS. What about sonar?
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  39

  PROOF Mormons have the truth

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  daniel prophesied that god would “set up a kingdom” that would “never be destroyed” and would “stand for ever” (daniel 2:44).

  in making this prophecy, he spoke of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints... and it will continue to progress until it has “filled the whole earth”... hundreds of thousands of people are baptized every year.

  the book of mormon is being translated in many languages.

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  Lee Marsh

  I think they have been drinking too much of what they are supposed to be drinking
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  18

  The Walking Wounded Interviews - available soon in DVD format

  by Lady Lee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a few people know that dr. penton, grace/mouthy and i participated in a series of interviews about the jws.

  the producer/director of the vhs videos, james kohl, has been working to update the videos and release the series in dvd format.. i am thrilled the videos will be soon available.

  kohl had done a few other interviews but they were never released.

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  Lee Marsh

  What does disturb me is that people have taken the original videos and edited them without giving proper ownership rights to the creators and may be making money from them. I doubt they did this with the owner’s consent or they would say as much. The videos were made for a purpose. When that didn’t happen the Kohls, father and so, made the videos available for free.